1. No they can't. WH Citadels don't have asset safety.
2. Without asset safety anywhere else, people simply would never put items in them, just like people don't put much into POS's. No, your anecdote of the single POS with value in K space doesn't count, on the whole, people simply don't put stuff in POS, people wouldn't put stuff in Citadels and Markets in Citadels could never happen.
3. Citadels are a replacement for POS, Outposts and intended for players to move out of NPC stations, therefore there has to be a balance of mechanics between the three.
4. 15% of item value is not Zero risk. Effectively you lost 15% of what you had in the Citadel.

A player owned outpost needs a large capitals/supercap fleet to be destroyed.

As i have tested myself on sisi, one medium citadel cannot destroy one bhaalgorn, let alone defend against a fleet of more.
As we have seen on the live server, one medium citadel PLUS 2 carriers could not destroy even one ship from a fleet of 11 subcaps containing 3 guardians, two faction battleships and 6 hacs. So its does not perform very good as force multiplier either.

I suggest you try it before making a statement.

On the contrary. You should read more before saying anything here. Like you showed you have no idea about asset safety, not you show you do not know about outposts.
http://www.eve-guides.com/outposts/FAQ.php
To take over ( an indestructible ) outpost you first need to destroy the POSes that keep the sov.



First you show you do not know eve, then you admit you are discussing citadels defenses when you have never tried one, and now you start cursing. Good way to show your real IQ man.

Which functionality did they remove?

https://zkillboard.com/system/30000250/ship/35833/

Looks pretty exciting to me. Our Fortizar in P3EN-E gets about 10 kills a day; mostly solo.

lol you become funnier with every post. You are the superhero that can take solo a player outpost... just that you haven't tried yet :) If you were not so bored, the entire eve should fear you !

What did you smoke ?

Because most of the playerbase has nothing else to do in life but stay and babysit bitships and bitstructures :)

I preferred it up there. Constant war-decs were crap but heh, We were always able to pull together about 20 guys who all had different play-styles and time-zones to defend against 40 T3 cruisers that belong to people that have nothing better to do than spend 50+ mil on a war-dec and then sit in a trade hub everyday picking off the odd person.. Not every fricking person plays this game for the PvP aspect, I'll accept its part of it and I do join in if needed, However not everyone wants to play that way.

Hey because something isn't null-sec and isn't PvP must mean that a bunch of no-life idiots must be the ones doing it.. That seems to be the attitude of a lot of people now and its really beginning to **** me off. I've even heard people questioning if CCP take the same stance because all the attention goes to 0.0. and theres never really concern for any of the rest of the playerbase.

But the astrahus is not what CCP had claimed it was going to be.

Well that's the point people are making, That cant be done in High-sec (Not sure about low) a fair few people feel that they've been screwed over by the devs

They did't make it equivalent to an equally priced POS.

Also it's interesting how walking in stations has plagued CCP. No one actually gives a **** about being able to walk in stations. It's just a symbol for broken promises.

"While the medium structures should be similar to a fully fitted Starbase".
However what most people here fail to realize is that even the large citadel ( fortizar ), with all the battle rigs, nullsec and skill bonuses, can be easily destroyed by the same number of subcaps ( < 10 ). Might get lucky and destroy the ships that come closer than 20km with the point defense battery but otherwise the 4 antisubcap missiles and one bomb launcher ( can only fit one ) cannot destroy even one faction fitted battleship. Try it on the test server if you dont believe it. If that happens in a w-system that offers bonuses for shield/armor, only very badly fitted ships can be lost against that citadel.

More is described here in a test server feedback post that predates the launch of the expansion. My favorite is this one "One of my sivpuls was able to tank a keepstar when confiq to anti sub cap while double webbed and scrammed.. "

and also have already proved at least twice that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I am referring to these posts, you imbecile. Learn to treat people in a polite manner so you can look like you have more than 4 neurons in that pitiful brain of yours.

#clawsarecomingout

Thank you but please do not bother. Everyone here already has a very good idea about this guy's real intelligence. For the such like him, the best way is to ignore them. They do not write anything worth reading anyways.

Jenn, you've been giving good advice but stereotyping all HiSec players as entitled idiots doesn't help.

As one of those HiSec idiots, I feel anything but entitled. The only real benefit I'm getting from HiSec is a reduction of risk allowing me to fit ships more effectively to purpose. War Dec mayhem generally limits the utility of what you're trying to imply is the case in HiSec, it isn't. A War Dec almost immediately turns HiSec into NullSec for the two parties involved. Most HiSec players realize this.

What is true is that players really don't know how to defend a Citadel yet, especially the small Astrahaus. It is not, and was not, intended to be an equal to a POS as has been stated many times already.

The Simple Reality:

If you are a HiSec corp with an Astrahaus, and you are under War Dec, you must have a fleet defense available any time the Citadel is in it's vulnerable window. If there is no War Dec on you, your Citadel is pretty darned safe in HiSec.

There... even us HiSec idiots can understand that... entitled or not!

Except has has been specifically quoted in this thread by multiple people already, it was advertised as equal to a L POS. And it's not equal to a M Pos with guns at all, maybe a small POS.
This is directly against what CCP said, and the Citadel was also meant to act as a force multiplier helping the defence fleet hit well above it's size. This also has not happened.
The L & XL are also similarly gimped in highsec, no-one has attacked the ones near Jita because they belong to the same groups that run around smashing everyone else's toys.

It's nothing to do with entitlement, Jenn has just turned into a broken record on that front with no mind to what the actual complaint is, and is actually to do with actually wanting a structure which is useful and matches CCP's claims as to how it will help defence fleets in all areas of space. Living in Null should not be compulsory to get anywhere in EVE.

We want to cover a very broad price tag with new structures. While the medium structures should be similar to a fully fitted Starbase...

Medium Structure hulls will cost around 350-700m ISK in materials to build.

Yeah. I can't remember, but I think I made my sig because of Jenn or people who used that word too much.

What i cannot get is the need of a noisy part of the eve players to impose their way of thinking and style of playing against the others. They do not understand that some of them simply do not like nullsec and pvp, and, when they fail to convince them, they start using words like "idiots", "whiners" and the such. They gloat when they see a change in the game that makes their life harder, without thinking that, with that part of the playerbase gone, they will have to do the very thing they hate : mining, researching and manufacturing. When i saw in Niarja a bunch of pirates obliterating a freighter, there was one comment on local from the freighter's pilot : "gf" and several from the pirates, most with the same meaning "thanks for the loot, you f***ing carebear loser".

You know, nobody is calling you idiots because you do not want to live in hisec. Try show some maturity and respect the other players as they respect you.

New structure hulls are going to replace Starbases, Outposts and Deployables over time

What do the size differences mean for Citadels?
Medium sized Citadel structures will be around 5-25km in diameter and are tailored for individual or small groups of players. They will be able to fit some appropriate defenses to offer resistance against most kind of assaults including capital ships.

I don't think they ever will to be honest, but I am speaking of one piece of functionality in particular: the ability to store a super capital. Sure you can dock them up in keepstars, but the price point of a keepstar keeps them far out of reach of most alliances, where as right now, I can go out and buy a XLSMA pos w/ faction guns for just over 1b isk. (Yes, I know someone can buy a sitter toon and safe log it off a citadel, but even that is flawed since ships can be bumped off a citadel.)

Our alliance CAN'T afford a Titan, but we have several super carriers. And you don't need sov to setup a POS or a citadel.
Basically what this mandates is "Join up with a mega-coalition that can afford a keepstar", "pay 15 bucks a month and spend 26b isk for a character you can't actually use to do anything", or "Be able to only fly a supercarrier until it dies in a fire, and you are out 30b." None of these choices are decent choices from a gameplay perspective.

Also @Jenn : If you look at the nerfs coming to carriers / supers, you'll find that there isn't going to be anymore wrecking of subcap fleets from carriers or supers anymore.

I wonder why, if you look at all the threads about this subject, there always are small corporations asking for better defense, while only members of big alliances like goonswarm or tapi are jamming fists into their mouths ?

[ refraining from telling again to monsieur all-too-present here what his babbling actually shows about his iq ]
"i am always right and you all idiots are wrong" / "i know all about citadels but never tried one" / "i know all about supercaps but never had one" / "quit whining ( because i cannot take my eyes of this thread and i forbid you to whine )" / "citadels are not supposed to replace POSes YET ( ouch but didn't i say "never" a few posts above ? )" / "why do you spend so much effort to try to make your point ( while i have wrote almost half of the text here )" / "people that take vacations do not belong in this game" / "people that do not want to pvp do not belong in this game" etc

you forgot about "i can solo destroy an outpost"

I normally fly a supercarrier with a small group, where we typically drop them ratting carriers. (we typically have about 5 people in a group): https://zkillboard.com/kill/54707825/ for example. Are you saying that since we don't have a huge group that we should just sell our supers and deal with it? A ship type should not be limited by the size of an alliance in terms of usefulness, that just makes it so megabloc coalitions get more powerful. Hell, if I absolutely needed to (say to make a fuel run) I can drop a small pos from my super, eject, and go about my business with the super remaining relatively safe as long as the pos stayed up. (Not saying that its a good idea, but it is still at least an option) Citadels will eventually remove the ability to do this, and that is NOT a good thing. (Not to mention the whole 24 hours anchoring thing, which makes moving a super safely a LOT more difficult)

Edit : I forgot to mention, even if we did have the money for a keepstar, how the hell would we keep it alive? As soon as it got out that a small alliance was anchoring a keepstar, every swinging **** around would show up for the anchoring timer, and we'd be completely unable to defend it, whereas a large pos can be put up without anyone even realizing you'd done so.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but once tethering tech has been fully implemented, will you not be able to use even medium citadels to protect supercaps?

Takes one to know one :)

Well now that i have read about you i would not expect to know about a thing before you talk so knowledgeable about it, so let me humbly tell to the expert : you cannot fit a citadel during the initial vulnerability window or when it takes damage.

No mate you do not understand : all the citadels destroyed were not fitted because all the owners were simply too idiots, while this guy comes now and enlightens us all.

I am very amused how he proves to be an idiot with each one of his posts and he still does not realize how lame he is and continues to do it...

How was your Astrahus fit? In the 30 minutes it takes to reinforce one, you should have been able to do enough damage to a seiged dread to kill it.

(emphasis mine.)

This time has not yet arrived.

In the meantime, please feel most welcome to construct a player-owned-starbase our outpost if they fit your needs better.

The word "being" seems superfluous.